tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post7806633282551177476..comments2024-03-18T10:43:28.122+00:00Comments on Linux notes from DarkDuck: Divergence in the distros: how the Linux community is splitting into a two-tier systemDarkDuck (m)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06273784224243667602noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-76159775069997029842013-06-17T14:28:57.359+01:002013-06-17T14:28:57.359+01:00I enjoyed your artilce, and have been using linux ...I enjoyed your artilce, and have been using linux (ok, GNU/Linux) exclusively since 1998. Started on RedHat 5.1 for a few years, then Mandrake, then Kubuntu, now Mint XFCE. I've discovered that I can compile things if I need to, but being able to get stable updates is more important to me. My system is stable and up all the time. I am a user of Linux. I've briefly tried the fancy do-dads but always go back to what works well. I actually still use pine (alpine actually now) as my mail program, and use the shell all the time and write small scripts to do day-to-day things. <br /><br />But I realize I am not in the norm. People use their systems in a variety of ways, and linux really offers the solution to that in a variety of flavors. Thinking back to when I started using it, I am amazed at the progress over the years. The fact that we can even HAVE the theoretical two tiers of linux is fantastic to me. I like where things are headed because the foundations that have been set up and continuously improved upon means we will progress and get better no matter what. Tiers of linux offerings? Yes please. :)Bovine Universityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613523540703309174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-49034045588902865642013-06-17T04:52:20.813+01:002013-06-17T04:52:20.813+01:00The Lenovo link is 404.The Lenovo link is 404.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02996835638461310078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-9929971587548814812013-06-16T22:18:34.595+01:002013-06-16T22:18:34.595+01:00@Leslie Satenstein: I also work in a large organiz...@Leslie Satenstein: I also work in a large organization where the desktop is Windows 7 (OK, I bring my Linux laptop ;-) I agree that OpenOffice or LibreOffice are not as nice as MS Office 2010. However, the traditional MS Office model and the "document metaphore" is getting old. Do we really need to save information in (closed standards) documents, such as .docx files, and e-mail them to colleagues? <br /><br />The modern company puts information in wikis, in collaboration platforms, in online documents. Microsoft is NOT good at this, they come up with overly complex solutions that combine the worst of the web and local software: you need AND windows, IE, plus local software (Office 2013) AND you need to be connected to some web service. Plus the usual bizarro license schemes (Office 2013 Media Small Business Gold RT or something like that). <br /><br />Wanna collaborate with collegues who use iPads, Chrome Books or Android tablets? Good luck. <br /><br />Also, coming from a Linux background, I find many Windows solutions clunky. Editing some voodoo Registry? Really? Rebooting time after time? (Who designed that package manager of theirs?) Inconsistencies galore in their flagship office products - for instance, even though Word and Excell have been in the suite for 15 years, you still get an error message when you try to open and Excell sheet with Word. How hard is it to implement a rule, stating "if file = .xls, start Excell". In the 2010 version of Office a coloured button was introduced (upper left corner), only to disappear without a trace in the 2013 version. Why? And why introduce transparency (compositing window manager) in Windows 7 as "the next big thing" only to ditch it in Windows 8 for mega sized lego blocks? <br /><br />Where does Outlook store the emails? And where the attachments? Why do I have to 'archive' emails, what IS that anyway? Why is there a calender in my e-mail client? And if that calender is so important, why can't I see emails and appointments in one screen? <br /><br />I don't think that polished Linux distros, such as Mint or Ubuntu are "student grade". They are at least as friendly as Window programs. But, some people are unreasonable: "Why do I find these Linux programs, that I have worked with for 30 minutes, more complicated than my Windows programs, that I've been using for 15 years?" Hey - what do you think? :-)Pieter Hogendoornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715137862929095267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-60321343027337692292013-06-16T21:57:27.834+01:002013-06-16T21:57:27.834+01:00OK, interesting dimension, "Newby friendly&qu...OK, interesting dimension, "Newby friendly" versus "Developer friendly" <br /><br />One could add several other dimensions, such as: <br />- stability (Debian) versus innovation (Gentoo, Arch, Fedora)<br />- distros that build the foundations (Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch, RedHat/Fedora, Suse/openSuse) and those that follow (Ubuntu, Centos, Sabayon), although the followers sometime add nice GUIs and Software centers<br /><br />I am a user, but I prefer distros such as Gentoo and Arch. I like to know what is going on behind the screens. So, I'm a user but I prefer "developer" distros. All the shiny stuff such as Compiz, KDE Plasma, or the funny wobbly windows in OSX are nice for 30 minutes, after that they irritate me. I prefer a keyboard driven Window manager without panels, title bars or icons. Call me nuts. Pieter Hogendoornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715137862929095267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-60349749801217004772013-06-16T21:34:53.350+01:002013-06-16T21:34:53.350+01:00I am glad we are not pitting one distribution over...I am glad we are not pitting one distribution over another. The better distributions (with more followers) percolate to the top, and become well known, bringing more users. <br /><br />I recently signed a contract with a large organization where the desktop is Windows 7. Linux does not have anything comparable to MS Office 2010. The functionality, their well-integrated office product just makes Windows 7 a must for organizations.<br /><br />For the very small organization, there is nothing wrong with Linux and the office product equivalents. But here too, I have been experiencing that there is a need for sleeker better functioning products. If these are not improved, Linux will remain a student's college distribution and not much more. Leslie Satensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13717978574768186005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-83014496962081115172013-06-16T17:18:31.509+01:002013-06-16T17:18:31.509+01:00I enjoyed your article. I think you are right on ...I enjoyed your article. I think you are right on the spot. This article reminded me on how the car companies operate. You have your Formula one cars and you have your everyday go back and forth to work car. I think of Debian and other "Pure" distros as the high end race cars that not everyone can afford or even learn how to drive. Ubuntu and Zorian and the others have developed a car that my 16 year old can drive. I think the Gap or the third tier is the high end sports car that is not a Honda Civic and it not an F1 but some thing in between like a Porsche it can handle itself and there is a set of everyday people that can drive them if they can afford it! Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099855606454525219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-30173584937963958782013-06-15T15:36:07.487+01:002013-06-15T15:36:07.487+01:00As for the question if this categorisation is appr...As for the question if this categorisation is appropriate or an oversimplification, I don't know. But I do know that I want to use my computer, and don't care about ideological restrictions or "movements" who try to communicate to me the advantages of free and open software in abstract metaphors and technical terms like "37500 packages". I like the possibility of buying software, most likely proprietary, like games from a well-integrated software center without having to read through manpages about how to add a new repository for closed-source software. I even like the idea of buying music, books or whatever really from the dash, but if I feel paranoid enough I can still turn this feature off to protect my privacy - although I think self-exhibition on platforms like Facebook is a far greater threat.<br /><br />I respect people who want to use more traditional Linux distributions, which don't even try to appeal with anything other than philosophical and political statements. That's cool, and I think distributions which concentrate on important inner values are necessary and important for Linux and Open Source as a whole. But there are also people like me who just want to use their hardware (even if it means to use closed drivers and firmwares), use software for which there's no open-source equivalent yet (even if it means to pay for it - and why not?), use a desktop environment more modern than old clunky Gnome 2 (even while it was perfectly usable in its own right).<br /><br />And I think these are reasonable enough wishes. I can't stand it when people claim or insinuate between the lines that Canonical would in any way harm "the" Open Source community. On the contrary, Ubuntu brought people like me to Linux, and made them open-source enthusiasts in the first place, who would otherwise not have made the switch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-9426773025828288132013-06-15T15:32:00.571+01:002013-06-15T15:32:00.571+01:00i don't really care what route distro's ma...i don't really care what route distro's may take.<br />freedom is always about choice, no matter gratis or not, or designed for you or not. it's you who decide to use it.<br />i use linux because i can't pay windows and i don't want to crack that like rotten people around me...<br />it's an ultimate freedom for me...zarakihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00025976124870260060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-89818673300241808872013-06-14T18:10:35.167+01:002013-06-14T18:10:35.167+01:00Well, I've already told my story before on ano...Well, I've already told my story before on another article here; So I'll cut to the chase.<br /><br />I use Xubuntu, It's an official Ubuntu without Unity. I don't use it because It's easy to use or whatever; I use it because it gives me access to the Ubuntu Software Center where I can choose to by a Game or App. The keyword being Choice.<br /><br />I'm thankful I'm not stuck using pure Debian or Redhat where there isn't a kind of Store to buy things. I strongly believe a Linux user is using a crippled OS by not having an App store in his/her distro.<br /><br />Having paid software available is a benefit. It's not restricting your freedom in any way and you have a choice to buy or not to buy, as there will probably be Open Source alternatives near the Item in the Store.<br /><br />No, it's not the same as a Closed Source OS. For one, the source is not available to you, and two, you have to buy the OS and are forced to upgrade to newer versions. AKA Slavery.<br /><br />I'm a proud Linux user since last year and I'm glad I have choices. In fact, every time I post a Linux article to Facebook, I end up being unfriended by a few people. It's not my fault if they can't handle the truth their closed source OS is spying on them.<br /><br />What gets me, forums of other distros don't understand the Software Center in Ubuntu. When people come in asking if there is an App store, they are greeted by posters telling them to use the one included. They seemingly can't grasp the idea that people want to be able to buy Software when the Open Sourced versions in the Distros repositories doesn't cut it.<br /><br />To end, I'll never understand why people use Windows and I'll never understand why Distros are so afraid of offering Paid Software.Mike Fretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05351858179310568913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-57045288292988476252013-06-14T09:30:27.964+01:002013-06-14T09:30:27.964+01:00Thanks for your comment, Tracyanne!Thanks for your comment, Tracyanne!DarkDuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128579430145372138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-26240525223988503152013-06-14T01:44:12.195+01:002013-06-14T01:44:12.195+01:00This isn't really a new concept to me. I'v...This isn't really a new concept to me. I've always been a Linux user (consumer if you like), ever since i started using a Linux based OS in 2000, for a good percentage of my IT career, all that time I was a Windows programmer. Now that I'm retired I have no need of Windows.<br /><br />I've never developed software on or for Linux. I was too busy trying to earn a living on the only operating system I could get employed to develop software on. <br /><br />Linux based operating systems have been my preferred choice for personal computer since 2000. <br /><br />As a consequence of being a Linux consumer this I often have a great deal of trouble understanding the angst of many who complain about Canonical or Red Hat or some other Distribution prime mover taking away our freedom. My freedom, as I see it has never been greater than it is today, my choices have never been better, and thanks to the efforts of Canonical to promote development of applications that can run on phone, tablets and desktop/laptop devices, by attempting to provide tools that are more intuitive and simpler to use, in line with the sorts of tools I learned my craft on, in a Windows environment, I may begin developing software again.<br /><br />As far as I'm concerned the angst over community is rather silly. Never having been a developer of FOSS and Linux software I've never really considered myself part of THAT community.<br /><br />For me I've identified much more with the sorts of users I see Canonical/Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Zorin, Mageia et al attempting to promote their product to. That's the community I feel part of, and that is the community that is benefiting from the current state of Linux, and, in my opinion, not before time.tracyannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598663908967691496noreply@blogger.com