tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post2712801249284854395..comments2024-03-18T10:43:28.122+00:00Comments on Linux notes from DarkDuck: Why Can’t Linux Crack The Desktop?DarkDuck (m)http://www.blogger.com/profile/06273784224243667602noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-41129424251294300682013-01-28T02:09:25.545+00:002013-01-28T02:09:25.545+00:00The problem with Linux (or Linux-based OSes) for e...The problem with Linux (or Linux-based OSes) for everyday use... Keeping in mind here I've used Linux and really want it to succeed, but let me get some things out of the way:<br />1) We need to stop comparing Linux with Windows or OSX. They are all different systems, each with their own set of strengths and weaknesses. Windows is really cool in some respects (and I'm talking on a technical level) and does some stuff better than Linux. And Linux does some stuff better than Windows. Each system has its design wins and flaws.<br />2) Stop pointing to the flaws in other people's products every time Linux get critcized. Some of that criticism is warranted.<br />The biggest problems I see with Linux adoption is the furious pace at which the kernel and libraries get obsoleted. Now I'm not talking about updates and bugfixes here- I'm talking about entire chunks of the operating system (kernel included) getting thrown out for the sake of, well... I don't know why. What has Linux gained from constant upgrades except for the bigger version numbers?<br />Backwards compatibility is not good at all...<br />And how many desktop environments does one OS need? It's ridiculous if you ask me.<br />Oh yeah, the Unix paradigm is old. The entire Unix framework on which Linux OSes are based was never meant for modern computing. Security yeah yeah but we need a shift in paradigms, period.<br />Maybe I'll take useabilty overbuilt-in security and make my own choices about shoring up my operating system. Security is important, but there's a lot more to an OS than that one point.<br />And Linux documentation, in general, just plain sucks; incomplete and outdated. This is something the Linux foundation needs to fix. The LF has already defined a set of standards so they can document a bare-bones Linux OS based on this which would apply to all major distros.<br />Nonsuchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471220439616874983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-44268447984300313592012-10-01T21:08:34.447+01:002012-10-01T21:08:34.447+01:00Linux is for creative human,windows is for poor kn...Linux is for creative human,windows is for poor knowledge base and non creative user,mac only for graphic designers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-34174804915990931752012-08-05T21:45:53.775+01:002012-08-05T21:45:53.775+01:00Good point, we should also ask ourself: what is re...Good point, we should also ask ourself: what is really important... linux or FOSS? <br /><br />The FOSS concept has importance, not the outdated unix cruft from the 70s. If the FOSS community want a successful desktop, they should step off the dead horse unix. 20 years of beating are enough, this proves again, the unix concepts were never meant for the desktop use case. Reactos is technical better suited and also FOSS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-91101038611513560342012-08-05T21:08:32.665+01:002012-08-05T21:08:32.665+01:00As consequence of the centralized distro model dom...As consequence of the centralized distro model dominant in Linux world (and NOT on the successul platforms Windows and Mac) you have such annoyances:<br />"Upgrading packaged Ubuntu application unreasonably involves upgrading entire OS<br /><br />It is easier to upgrade to the newest stable versions of most applications -- even open source applications -- on a proprietary operating system than it is on Ubuntu."<br /><br />https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/578045<br /><br />Also, the system-application integrated model of the linux distros is the reason for the missing applications in the linux ecosystem, it plainly scales not well enough: 10.000 apps vs 10 million on e.g. windows. This was identified by ubuntus MPT 2010, see this talk UDS N Monday plenary:<br /> "Getting great applications on Ubuntu" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT5fUcMUfYg)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-47535058649299916532012-08-05T20:59:08.357+01:002012-08-05T20:59:08.357+01:00Ok, the most insightful comment on the current sta...Ok, the most insightful comment on the current state of the linux desktop was from Ingo Molnar some months ago:<br /><br />"The basic failure of the free Linux desktop is that it's, perversely, not free enough.<br /><br />There's been a string of Linux desktop quality problems, specific incidents reported by +Linas Vepstas , +Jon Masters , +Linus Torvalds and others, and reading the related G+ discussions made me aware that many OSS developers don't realize what a deep hole we are in.<br /><br />The desktop Linux suckage we are seeing today - on basically all the major Linux distributions - are the final symptoms of mistakes made 10-20 years ago - the death cries of a platform.<br /><br />Desktop Linux distributions are trying to "own" 20 thousand application packages consisting of over a billion lines of code and have created parallel, mostly closed ecosystems around them. The typical update latency for an app is weeks for security fixes (sometimes months) and months (sometimes years) for major features. They are centrally planned, hierarchical organizations instead of distributed, democratic free societies."<br /><br />https://plus.google.com/109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe<br /><br />tl;dr: The fragmented and still centralized distribution model prevents a real platform and condemns therefore the linux desktop to irrelevance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-31812747853785037962012-07-04T14:18:22.651+01:002012-07-04T14:18:22.651+01:00This person represents my argument well. Pointing ...This person represents my argument well. Pointing out that the person is anonymous to alter the argument rather than facing the challenge directly. Claiming personal attacks when there are none. That is what people in our community do, they manipulate the argument so it has a different face and then attack that because it is the only way they can win.<br /><br />You made my point very well, thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-73904702539302878402012-07-04T04:08:00.841+01:002012-07-04T04:08:00.841+01:00http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/vvdxn/the_f...http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/vvdxn/the_ffmpeglibav_situation/c57zdk2<br /><br />This is pretty typical, but believe what you want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-74517492100456716632012-07-03T23:11:06.646+01:002012-07-03T23:11:06.646+01:00This Anonymous person is actually pretty typical. ...This Anonymous person is actually pretty typical. When people don't agree with them, and instead engage in robust debate.... using facts. This type of person instead prefers to make personal attacks from the anonymity of an anonymous posting.<br /><br />This is not why Linux won't "crack" the desktop, but it is an example of the sort of cowardice that is prevalent in Linux circles.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-51176980907539940342012-07-03T18:16:11.152+01:002012-07-03T18:16:11.152+01:00"When free cd's were distributed with Ubu..."When free cd's were distributed with Ubuntu (7?) Linux broke into the consumer desktop world, with the usual limitations"<br /><br />WOW, so your assertion is that Linux was not on Desktops prior to Ubuntu 7 (2007)? FAIL<br /><br />I was using Linux on my Desktop back in Mandrake (pre-Mandriva) days. In other words, before 2000! I knew several people that also used Redhat, Debian, and Slack on the Desktop at that time, they influenced me to try Linux.<br /><br /><br />"Even though rtf and html was available, there was no FM to R."<br /><br />Man, strike 2! I got a complete manual when I bought a copy of Mandrake 7 in Walmart. All versions of Linux I knew of had a manual in html or in text that you could download. Then there were already books that you could by in 2000 as well. Beyond that... what is wrong with the man pages???<br /><br />"Most computer users carry usb flash chips of one kind or another, yet many distros still don't do LiveUSB or graceful multiboot."<br /><br />STRIKE 3!<br />Does Windows or Mac have ANY version of their OS that boots and runs live from USB? DVD? CD?<br /><br />In fact, speaking of graceful multiboot can you explain what you mean? Because I started back in pre-2000 multibooting Windows and Mandrake and it was Linux that used LiLo as the boot loader that did the multibooting not Windows. Do you know why? Because Windows had no built in way to do it back then! Even now, with Grub/Grub2 it is still an easily accomplished task that makes mutliboot a breeze.<br /><br />"Even ignoring hardware drivers, Linux software setup still often requires detouring into technical arcanities documented only in confused fora and incomplete/obsolete wikis instead of version-layered hyper-manuals(git?)."<br /><br />Again, just WOW! You are batting for the fence... behind you.<br /><br />I can say that early days of Linux was riddled with spotty driver support and even "compile your own" software that often had issues. That was over 10 years ago though. In this last 10 years Linux has been a fast moving ecosystem that has seen loads of drivers and software improvements. In fact on many levels hardware is often supported better under Linux than in Windows. When you get/install new hardware (new video card or printer) and start Windows 7, you might or might not have a driver that was created for Windows 7. Even if you do, you have to install it via a CD that shipped with the hardware. That driver may even be outdated!<br /><br />With Linux, in most cased that hardware driver is already built in! No CD was ever shipped with that hardware for Linux, nor was it needed. The kernel developers have already done the work for you.<br /><br />I realize that Windows has this same luxury as well in many cases. I do not claim that driver support is bad in Windows. I merely state that it is no more correct to say this for Windows or Linux. Hardware support is great in both these days. There are some examples of poor support on either side. <br /><br /><br />For the record, I would love to see more people use Linux, but do not think that Windows should go away either. Having only 1 OS is bad. No competition stifles innovation and improvement. The better Linux does, the more Windows will fight to be better and vice versa. Mac, BSD, etc... only add more flavor and more innovation. Choice is good people!dadreggorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11773304039963225079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-87939142305081602392012-07-03T13:48:01.887+01:002012-07-03T13:48:01.887+01:00We won't crack the desktop until we get over g...We won't crack the desktop until we get over going ape shit over petty things. Look in any of the forums, or even this thread. There are still so many drooling idiots raging over such trivial things that we'll never win because they make us all look like fools.<br /><br />You can thank people like Sam, Carla, Katherine, Scott, Richard, and others for promoting this terrible behavior and helping to perpetuate the problem.<br /><br />To people like them, it is better for business to keep the animals out of their cages because it means more clicks. At the cost of everyone else who wants to see FOSS be successful.<br /><br />We will never progress as long as we act as bad as or worse than Microsoft. Unfortunately today, we are the trolls spreading FUD. We are the problem, and we are just destroying ourselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-69858970619119040312012-07-03T04:58:27.576+01:002012-07-03T04:58:27.576+01:00So your some sort of hive mind of 1 Million Ex-Ubu...So your some sort of hive mind of 1 Million Ex-Ubuntu users?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-83052706757754416052012-07-02T08:51:41.711+01:002012-07-02T08:51:41.711+01:00Thanks DD, for reposting that link.Thanks DD, for reposting that link.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-85982313365824115782012-07-02T04:42:51.473+01:002012-07-02T04:42:51.473+01:00@anonymous, I refute your assertion that I called ...@anonymous, I refute your assertion that I called for tolerance on any website. I merely kept to the subject, and unlike you made my name publicly available and associated with my posts.<br /><br />It's ironic that not once did you stick to the point, the original article, and not once did you have the intestinal fortitude to come out off hiding, and actually debate the real point.... namely the complete and utter lack of anything of substance in the article. You had no meaningful reply to my factual statements, and instead attempted to derail the thread with irrelevancies.<br /><br />You have demonstrated nothing of substance, and instead shown us your ignorance, lack of logical thought and cowardice. You have not in any way shown that my factual statements are invalid, and you have not validated anything stated in the article, which is and always was a load of regurgitated misinformation.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-46330353289842127242012-07-01T23:37:47.623+01:002012-07-01T23:37:47.623+01:00Well, I think my point has been pretty well made b...Well, I think my point has been pretty well made by now, so this will be my last contribution to this thread.<br /><br />It is just ironic, but consistent, that TA calls for tolerance on one website while demonstrating none on another. Sad, so sad. :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-90646784184114084452012-07-01T22:33:55.468+01:002012-07-01T22:33:55.468+01:00^
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The deleted Tracyanne's post only had this...^<br />|<br />The deleted Tracyanne's post only had this link. I make it clickable.<br /><br /><a href="http://nmunro.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/my-major-reason-for-starting-blog.html" rel="nofollow">http://nmunro.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/my-major-reason-for-starting-blog.html</a>DarkDuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16128579430145372138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-75792559143790290622012-07-01T22:09:40.556+01:002012-07-01T22:09:40.556+01:00LOL, talk about change the subjec.
Clearly you h...LOL, talk about change the subjec. <br /><br />Clearly you have no argument to refute my factual statements, so instead you introduce a spurious and invalid debate in an attempt to derail the thread.<br /><br />The fact is the author of this piece has no idea what he is talking about, and no amount of sidetracking by someone who won't even stand by their own words, by publishing their name/nick, will change that,tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-83896201269429614322012-07-01T21:31:28.833+01:002012-07-01T21:31:28.833+01:00You are right.
Technical Linux superiority does n...You are right.<br /><br />Technical Linux superiority does not matter. <br /><br />User interface or quality apps are not the problem because MacOS / MacOS X has been superior all the time than Windows, and Apple OSs never take a significant market share.<br /><br />Typical Windows user is a mouse user with very limited background in computers and this is fine. After all, not all car drivers are a professional drivers or even know what things are under the hood (like me).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-84128505969964272682012-07-01T20:10:52.116+01:002012-07-01T20:10:52.116+01:00Good try at trying to change the conversation.
Un...Good try at trying to change the conversation.<br /><br />Unfortunately (sadly?) an operating system has become a religion to some. This does not excuse leaving comments on an individual's blog, then bad mouthing said individual on another website. That is just plain bullying--which was recognized on LXer when another poster suggested that folks just cool it with DD.<br /><br />Most did, but, unfortunately, some did not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-42514243247823023032012-07-01T16:57:06.188+01:002012-07-01T16:57:06.188+01:00Much of this is Windows-centric thinking.
For i...Much of this is Windows-centric thinking. <br /><br />For instance, in terms of Music software - I have used Sybelius and Cubase - but on Linux I use Rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/ ), Hydrogen (http://www.hydrogen-music.org/ ) and MuseScore (http://musescore.org/ ) or Ardour (http://ardour.org/ ) for a digital studio - have you ever tried out any of these with an open mind? You don't have to have proprietary software for it to be successful. Every school music department in the country could have a copy of these for free (legally).<br /><br />As for games - have a look at Happy Penguin (http://www.happypenguin.org/ ) and this YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2s8Qfslko ) and this list (http://www.unixmen.com/10-must-play-linux-games-for-2012/ ). There are LOTS of games for Linux and many games run under CrossOver (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxgames/ ) as well (admittedly not free).<br /><br />The same goes for software like Adobe Photoshop (try GIMP instead), Adobe Premier (there are lots but I prefer OpenShot - http://www.openshotvideo.com/ ).<br /><br />The reason for this is that Linux systems generally run open source software. If you have the source code then it generally does not matter which package manager you use. There are four 'standards' used:<br /><br />1) DEB (used by Ubuntu, Mint and Debian) - in co-ordination with APT which is a awesome package manager.<br /><br />2) RPM (aka Red Hat Package Manager) - widely used on Red Hat derived systems such as Fedora, OpenSuSE and Mandriva)<br /><br />3) tar.gz PacKaGes (PKG) - e.g. Slackware + generic Linux distributions of software. Same a ZIPping up a directory - unpack to /opt and off you go.<br /><br />4) Source code - what is required by all the software repositories and by source based systems (like Gentoo).<br /><br />This is no worse than the situation for Windows. In the case of Windows you generally have:<br /><br />1) Updates of packages (from Microsoft) - analogous to Fedora/Ubuntu repositories - they just download and run.<br /><br />2) MSI (Microsoft Installer) files - these have to match up to the correct installer system and if not it doesn't work!<br /><br />3) SETUP.EXE files - you HOPE these are not Trojans and every one is different (and wants to put things in different places).<br /><br />Oh I forgot - in addition you have 32 bit EXE and 64 bit EXE files and YOU have to handle which ones you download. How is this any easier than Linux? - hint - it isn't - you are just used to the Windows-centric way of thinking.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12620856903729146769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-77636891054425323312012-07-01T16:42:26.589+01:002012-07-01T16:42:26.589+01:00The title of this post "Why can't Linux C...The title of this post "Why can't Linux Crack the Deskto" is a bit of a misnomer and depends entirely on the writer's definition and reference of the word "crack".<br /><br />Linux has not garnered a tremendous "percentage" of computer desktop usage statistics here in the USA to be considered a success for the sales mentality that permeates most of technology use means testing now-a-days. That does not mean however that there is not a significant amount of Linux desktop use, or that this criteria is of any real importance anyhow.<br /><br />Furthermore, most of these comparative analyses do not apply to the rest of the world, where Linux desktop use - in various forms including the "one Laptop per Child" project is very successful and expanding rapidly.<br /><br />I would not have expected DarkDuck to resort to sensational article topics for increased readership.wandersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05292188952050262264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-58706755384899055472012-07-01T16:16:07.017+01:002012-07-01T16:16:07.017+01:00Am also fed up with opinions being written as if t...Am also fed up with opinions being written as if they are hard facts. The choice of operating system you roll out in Enterprise really depends on what your users needs are. There are some fantastic enterprise desktop choices for Linux desktop now and I am sure market penetration will continue as the traditional application space changes. What really needs to change (and will eventually) is out of touch old school IT managers, and trainers who feel their strangle hold on users slipping and are growing afraid.randommemdumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08088613630067027464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-41465537481655311882012-07-01T11:35:08.177+01:002012-07-01T11:35:08.177+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-81941995192858540262012-07-01T10:39:28.801+01:002012-07-01T10:39:28.801+01:00@annonymous, my comments are indeed available for ...@annonymous, my comments are indeed available for everyone to read. In fact I stand by them, I quite proud of my comments in general. <br /><br />However if one wants to use my comments as some sort of means of discrediting factual statements made here, by myself, then they really do have no counter argument to those factual statements.<br /><br />Quite clearly, the author of this repeated misinformation piece, really has no idea what he is talking about, and is, as I've already stated, merely repeating misinformation, or FUD, that has been floating around the internet for years, <br /><br />At least 12 years that I'm aware of, and it was misinformation 12 years ago when I as a Windows programmer and Windows Administrator first attempted to use Linux (Mandrake, Red Hat Lycoris and SuSE to be exact.... I settled on Mandrake). As it turned out Linux was not difficult to learn, in fact it was no more difficult than Windows, In fact I have used the CLI (Command Line or CMD on Windows) l4ss on Linux than I've used it on Windows.<br /><br />Over those 12 years I've grown to love using Linux, in comparison Windows, even for an expert (I've used Windows for over 20 years) Windows is an annoying pig of a System, so I'm quite pleased to be called a Linux Fangirl. However.... and here is the important part... being a Linux Fangirl neither adds to, nor detracts from any of the factual statements I made in response to, and by way of refuting the mind numbingly wrong statements made by the author of the article.<br /><br />If in fact the author of the article had actually known what he was talking about, he would have chosen some of the real reasons why Linux (desktop Linux that is) has not become more popular. But as he doesn't actually know what he is talking about he chose to repeat FUD. Not just any FUD mind you, but easily refuted FUD, that even my decidedly non technical Linux using friend could and has refuted when fed the same FUD by here Windows using Daughter and Son in Law.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-88298131514308107512012-07-01T10:35:19.728+01:002012-07-01T10:35:19.728+01:00Also, I'm surprised that nobody has mention An...Also, I'm surprised that nobody has mention Android in the argument for Linux cracking the Desktop.<br /><br />From what I've read, it looks like Android 5.0 could have a version for the Desktop or functionality that would allow it to be. If this is correct and it can be done properly then there is a possibility that the 400 million Android device owners would see this as a better alternative than Windows and so would the large number of developers for that platform. As the Android and Linux kernel have merged, it should mean that porting Linux applications to Android. With that and the ecosystem of Android apps, it could be a serious challenge to Windows. The question is, while there will always be demand for specialist Linux distros and lightweight Graphical Toolkits like FLTK, but how will this affect the like of Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint as well as Gnome and KDE?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474321140763590831.post-32274481778405437612012-07-01T10:24:57.607+01:002012-07-01T10:24:57.607+01:00I want to comment on the issue of training and add...I want to comment on the issue of training and additional costs. <br /><br />I have worked for a large multinational company for a long time. In that period, there has been two migrations to new versions of Windows and a major telephony system upgrade. The training for these has consisted of a few days helped by floorwalkers, some written material, numerous PDF presentations as well as of course company tech support. This would have happened regardless of whether the OS upgrade was with Windows or Linux. With these upgrades, money would have been spent on training for Tech Support Staff on Windows therefore the same would have happened for Linux. As Linux Desktop is almost similar in most aspects to Windows, I don't see how additional training would be required?<br /><br />As to the argument that Windows is easier for the ordinary employee because they have it at home, from my experience that is laughable. I have come across many instances of computer illiteracy where have I been met with awkward silences when for instance asking people to copy and paste or attach documents to an email. While everybody has Windows on their PC, it doesn't mean that they use it for more than just browsing the web. The PC desktop needs to be thought of as a multi-tool which people use it for different purposes. Just because some people use all or lot of the functions it offers, it doesn't mean that most people are the same. Most people only use a PC for one or two things and have no need or desire to use the rest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com